(highlight:: "The Market is a Biggest Vigilante in the World": Fostering Systemic Change in Cage Free
Transcript:
Speaker 1
We truly believe that if there is a biggest vigilante in the world, it's the market. Like in the sense the market swings towards efficiency. It creates a system that is efficient, it destroys something that's not efficient. You might have a bubble, but the bubble bursts. And I think a lot of the times when we were talking about cage free in Asia, we were fighting against the vigilante market. And we were like, well, if we really have to get the cage free as a system to win, we got to create an ecosystem. And again, we don't forecast, we cannot forecast. But when you really look at any sort of change that's kind of happened, it's primarily been when there has been an ecosystem for change. And that kind of helps the movement. So for example, look at the growth of the Silicon Valley. If it wasn't for Stanford being there, it wasn't for the initial blue chip companies to be based there. I would be surprised if all of these companies kind of went there and they set up, right? In a sense, like there was an ecosystem. Taking some of these learnings and understanding that if we want to cage free to be successful, we got to like not fight the vigilante market, but get the vigilante market to start seeing Efficiency within cage free or higher right for production system in Asia. So we decided that it's better to set up a company that's dedicated to create an ecosystem for cage free production in the region. And when we meet ecosystem, it means like, is there a knowledge are there equipments available? Is there an efficient market system with very little friction that will make companies do this change? And also, while we might be pretty bullish or speak very highly about these cage free movements or higher welfare movements, the farmers who are in the business know the temperature Of the market better than any animal advocate would, because they're in the business every day. And when they kind of touch the market, then they're like, well, this seems a bit cold. Then you realize that, well, if it is cold, then we will have to want to get, there'll be a number of companies to invest and so on and so forth. And hence, we set up good food partners as a consulting company that works on an ecosystem approach to create a favorable market conditions for both buyers and sellers to meet these Cage free commitments, because we do believe that if it isn't for the market's market efficiencies, this movement isn't one of those successful.)
- Time 0:06:16
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(highlight:: Challenges of Transitioning to Cage-Free Egg Production
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Typically, when companies do put out commitments, we kind of think like, well, that setting out a strong market signal that the change is coming. And a lot of time, what happens is the farmers are looking for something beyond just a commitment, because when you really get the players within this ecosystem, you have the farmer Who has to do a huge amount of capital investment to transition from cage to cage free. You have a company who has to buy cage free eggs and then you have the advocacy groups who put the pressure. And of course, you have the birds. If the cage free transition fails, the birds have to lose the most, but keeping that aside in a pure market system. In this three, the only person who has the most probable scheme in the game is the egg producer, because they've now done a transition, they've taken a loan. And if companies don't buy, they're really at the brink of being bankrupt, because there isn't a market, like just an open market for cage free eggs in the region, but there's people Out of the green asking for it yet. So when I say the temperature is that when a producer wants to say, well, I have $100,000, $200,000 to invest, where do I invest? Do I expand into a new cage facility or a cage free facility? They're going to see how much money would I possibly make? What's the risk that exists? And at this point, when we were like, as I was working with the human society, we were on the other side of the table, working with companies, organizing these meetings on and so forth. When we met the producers, we realized that the producers, when they test the temperature of the waters, it's too cold. It's too cold for them to put their money to set up. And then we realized that it's cold for multiple reasons, because again, the market dynamics has multiple players. The cage free commitment is just one aspect. For example, let's take the US. If US is probably one of the most successful markets for cage transition, we realized that there were just multiple signals that went. You had all the ballot initiatives that came in, and the ballot initiatives were like, well, it's going to become illegal. Then you have all these companies, kind of major share in the egg market making these transition. Then you had a history to look at. This transition had already happened for crates. So from the producers point of view, then it always happened for crates. It's probably going to happen for eggs as well. Similarly, when you look at Asian producer, there isn't an ecosystem for legislation. They're almost certain that cages, maybe of few countries like Taiwan and South Korea being an exception, not maybe India being an exception, where there might be some sense that there Might be a legislation coming. But what it seems like, that feedback loop isn't there that it might get outlawed. So if I have to future proof, I need to invest in something that is going to be longer. They don't have a proof to say that these companies, which have made commitments, have actually placed the purchase order to make worthwhile of the commitment in terms of a business Decision. So when I mean that there isn't a temperature or there wasn't a 10-inch picture when we started was we had all these commitments, most from a producer's point of view, not what the paper They've printed in, because what they really cared was, is this transitioning into a purchase order? If I'm putting through all this effort to go, do I have enough gain at the end to make worthwhile? Because finally, as much as we talk ethics and everything, the hard reality is that the markets, as I keep saying, the vigilante markets only gravitate towards making money at the end Of it. That's it. That's all that gravitates to it. And if they don't make money, it's really, really hard to push a market. We'll see this with Plan Based, where if you might have a bubble, you have a whole bunch of investment, you have a ton of companies coming in, but it just doesn't sustain. Because finally, what you really need is the investors need to see the money, the farmers need to see the money, and it needs to be economically I think this piece is really key based on
Speaker 3
The location as well.)
- Time 0:09:20
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(highlight:: Taking a Pragmatic, Farmer-Centered Approach to Animal Welfare Improvements
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Like, you know, there's this famous quote right over all the starter houses had glass walls, everybody would be vegetarian. In India, starter houses have no wall. Like, there is no wall. Like, in the sense that you are a blessing.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So most people grow.
Speaker 1
They look at a light bird in a sharp, select the bird. The bird is slaughtered right in front of their eyes dressed, put in a plastic bag and given. So I think, again, a lot of these sensitivities that we think that is true. Similarly, with the nation to follow the nation, right, in the sense like, you know, say, oh, well, industrial animal architecture is really bad. And you have these giant companies. But when you look at Asia, you still have giant companies, but a vast majority of Asian egg producers are now again very different in the broiler system, at least the egg producers are Independent farmers as an enough small borders. They're still independent farmers. Who wake up in the morning, not to be cruel to animals. It's not like the spam is like, well, today is my day. Wake up in the morning to meet put a good meal on the table, make money. I lead that growth aspiration that every Asian including I have, like, in the sense like, that's all that's being done. And so in the sense like, when you go and talk to a farmer, say that, well, we want you to go from cage to cage three, what are you really fighting? If I think that aspiration to grow the aspiration to make money, and sometimes an aspiration just to ensure that the children are able to go to school, and there's a meat put on the table, And they don't miss a mortgage, so on and so forth. So in the sense like, so they aren't waking in the morning and say that what I need to keep these birds in cages because I am making a point, they're like, well, this is the most efficient System, and I'm going to gravitate towards that efficiency. And and hence what global food partners, we have precise so much on building capacity of farmers and farm workers with this case, we can efficient, I don't want to go back, will you listen To go back to say that world just saying that cage feels inefficient. Obviously, cage can be efficient. It's just that each is efficient when you build a producer's capacity, because when a farmer moves from when the farmer is a conventionally cage farmer, they're an egg farmer. And when they become a cage free farmer, they become a hen farmer, it's just a change in the attitude and change in what's a stop person ship looks like, the sort and so forth. And that's done with a lot of training and capacity building. So again, so broadly, to kind of close the loop on the tooler, one is, you need localized approaches and figure out and if we were to be investing in what kind of campaigns or what kind of Action, and the second important thing is, you know, for me at least is being that farmers don't wake up in the morning saying that, well, today my life's goal is to herd animals.)
- Time 0:25:41
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(highlight:: Eggs Are Purchased Based on Supplier Reliability, Low Cost, and Low Reputational Risk
Transcript:
Speaker 1
A purchasing manager at a hospitality chain does not wake up in the morning saying that I need to buy birds extra on cages, right? Like, no, nobody is actually making that decision saying that I'm buying from cages or am I buying from cage free? A purchasing manager is waking up and saying that, well, this is my line item. And what is everybody has that KPI, right? What is a what is a Marriott hotels or let's say any five star hotels just edit the name out of a company, and let's take a hospitality company, let's say a five star hotel in Pali, what is The purchasing manager's mandate? Why one of their mandate could be that they have to purchase cage free? The key mandate is that when they wake up in the when the guests wake up in the morning and come to the buffet, there has to be eggs. That particular eggs has to fall within that particular line item that's being given for perishable, right? So what what when we are asking them to change, they're looking for a reliable supplier. They're looking for some sort of reduced cost overall. And they also want to ensure that that transition doesn't create any additional reputation risk. So if you end up having a tiny cage free power, where there's a food safety issue overall on the far and let me say, and then you kind of realize that, well, I'm buying cage free, but they're Salmonella contamination because they just like picked up the eggs without washing their hands because they're a small HD farm who are not trained down for biosecurity. My reputation risk is much larger. And I think it's a real reputation with like a guest gets a some of blue for their birthday Bali. Again, to go back, and I don't want to make it seem like it's all market, but for me, at least where I stood, it's all market driven in the sense like we thought to when we're looking at buyer's Perspective, the buyer needs a reliable supply chain with low cost, which does not create additional reputation risk. A producer wants a reliable buyer who is going to buy eggs because they're doing this whole capital chain. They want reduced friction in delivering these eggs to this particular producer of a buyer, otherwise small quantity transportation, so on and so forth. And what they definitely need is capacity building and skills of the day, but to run their farmers. So I guess if you're able to create these two, the chains go to happen.)
- Time 0:40:03
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(highlight:: Companies Aren't Greedy, They Are Designed to Maximize Profits
Transcript:
Speaker 1
I think greed is a strong word. So I guess, well, it might see, but again, a company is established for a pure purpose to create maximum returns to the shareholders. Yeah. And what is a company I make in a sense. So a bunch of optimization and maybe stockable reputation risk, what are we really talking about? And the sense like, well, will my perceived value of the company drop because it's stock value is going to drop and that would create as it finally, it's all boils down to the fact that Am I able to give enough value to share, or to list it or unlisted doesn't matter. Finally, it all boils down to this companies are by design set of decade. So in that sense, companies by design, you could say that capitalism in itself is really that's where to say. But I think I'm not necessarily sure that if we were to say, well, we want we need to fight the greed and bring in altruism within the market economy. And I don't know ESG is a great example. We need to see how the markets are going to respond to ESG is it just going to be a fat bubble will actually money go in. I know that there are now ESG ETFs. We know that SaaS B is the requiring animal welfare to be reported out within the reporting platform. We have mutual funds which are there, you're able to like alter your pension funds towards one and I think groups like ARE are doing a fabulous work on trying to bring the conversation. But into the forefront of the boardrooms. But I guess there has been some amount of change, but I don't know whether the change is going to last and how long will that particular change last. So it's going to be an interesting example. And I think and it's not just going to be with animal welfare, I think it's generally with ESG overall. And we've seen, right? For example, climate financing, we have new bonds to chocolate friendly bonds. You have various financing mechanism that is kind of coming. And animal welfare somehow has to sit within and shoot shot of the AREs and groups like that for doing good amount of work to bring within forefront.)
- Time 0:43:38
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(highlight:: The Importance of Capacity Building: Preparing Farmers for a Cage to Cage-Free Transition
Transcript:
Speaker 1
And also, James, the reason why I be able to say so much on capacity building, because a lot of times I feel like as any said, right, you we oversimplify what cage free is like, oh, just go Remove the barn, put the bird saying that it's done. And some farmers do do that. And then you realize that, you know, the birds are where do you get the issues, right? Where do you get a bullet straw? The bullets have to be rare in a similar environment in which they're going to be there for their laying period. So, if you take a bullet, so just to kind of say, for your listeners might not know this term, so most of the egg leggings come as a day old chick, and they're really in a raring facility where They're brought together with like lights and heat light and so on and so forth, till they start reach their sexual maturity age, like till they're basically called as full ups at that Point of time, where they're right about to lay eggs. And in most cases, from a raring facility, they're moved to a laying facility. There could be cases where you have all in all out systems where you bring in their chicken, they stay in that same farm, but that's very rare, because by the time this bird comes to cull, You want to have the next bird ready. So, most farms will end up having a raring facility and a laying facility. Now, what's really important is that the bird needs to be familiar on the laying facility and the raring, because they have to be familiar to the bird. If it's too vastly different, the bird's like, where do you suddenly brought me? In a sense, like, so in a sense, it has to meet the same temperature. It's an animal, right? It's like, you've read this, or it in, let's say, a cage, and then you suddenly brought the bird from a cage to cage free and put the bird in laying stage in a cage free system, then the bird's Like, I have no idea how to navigate this complex maze of perches and stuff like that. So, I guess it's very important. And then, if farmers simplify, they take their cage, pull it, put them in a cage facility, then you end up having issues like the birds don't know how to use their nest box. They don't know how to budge. They end up laying eggs on the floor. Sometimes, if there isn't enough nutrition, sort of, feel that kind of matches for cage free, you might end up having feather pecking as an issue, which is there. You don't have enough enrichment that can be feather pecking. And all of this can show your flock pretty quickly. You have a feather pecking, not like, feather pecking to cannibalism is a thin line. So, you never know when the behavior of feather pecking can move towards cannibalism, and then that's it. So, and I guess the issue is this, right? If you have a cage free farm, and if that particular cage free farm fails, the farmer is always going to believe the system and say that, oh my god, this is the reason why you need to keep In cages. If there's a cage farm and the birds die, they're going to blame themselves, say that we did something wrong, right? Because that's it. That's the people's mind. So, in that sense, and hence, we want to ensure that when a farmer sets up a cage free farm, they exactly know what they're getting into. They've done bitsnap over simplified for them. It's not, but again, not to make it daunting, but to build capacity and say, well, you can do this, but these are the stuff that you have to keep in mind. You've got to have great biodiversity. You'll have to ensure that there's enough perching place. You need to have enrichment, not because of the birds, but just to keep the birds healthy. And then you kind of realize that almost get it. And once they get it, they want to do it. It's just that somebody has to build that capacity.)
- Time 1:03:29
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(highlight:: 1min Snip
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Sometimes, if there isn't enough nutrition, sort of, feel that kind of matches for cage free, you might end up having feather pecking as an issue, which is there. You don't have enough enrichment that can be feather pecking. And all of this can show your flock pretty quickly. You have a feather pecking, not like, feather pecking to cannibalism is a thin line. So, you never know when the behavior of feather pecking can move towards cannibalism, and then that's it. So, and I guess the issue is this, right? If you have a cage free farm, and if that particular cage free farm fails, the farmer is always going to believe the system and say that, oh my god, this is the reason why you need to keep In cages. If there's a cage farm and the birds die, they're going to blame themselves, say that we did something wrong, right? Because that's it. That's the people's mind. So, in that sense, and hence, we want to ensure that when a farmer sets up a cage free farm, they exactly know what they're getting into. They've done bitsnap over simplified for them. It's not, but again, not to make it daunting, but to build capacity and say, well, you can do this, but these are the stuff that you have to keep in mind. You've got to have great biodiversity. You'll have to ensure that there's enough perching place. You need to have enrichment, not because of the birds, but just to keep the birds healthy. And then you kind of realize that almost get it. And once they get it, they want to do it.)
- Time 1:05:35
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(highlight:: Importance of Proper Nutrition and Enrichment in Cage Free Farming
Summary:
Proper nutrition and enrichment are crucial in cage free farms to prevent issues like feather pecking which can lead to cannibalism.
Lack of enrichment can lead to quick deterioration in the flock. It is essential to understand the responsibilities and requirements of setting up a cage free farm to ensure success and prevent blaming the system or oneself when issues arise.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Sometimes, if there isn't enough nutrition, sort of, feel that kind of matches for cage free, you might end up having feather pecking as an issue, which is there. You don't have enough enrichment that can be feather pecking. And all of this can show your flock pretty quickly. You have a feather pecking, not like, feather pecking to cannibalism is a thin line. So, you never know when the behavior of feather pecking can move towards cannibalism, and then that's it. So, and I guess the issue is this, right? If you have a cage free farm, and if that particular cage free farm fails, the farmer is always going to believe the system and say that, oh my god, this is the reason why you need to keep In cages. If there's a cage farm and the birds die, they're going to blame themselves, say that we did something wrong, right? Because that's it. That's the people's mind. So, in that sense, and hence, we want to ensure that when a farmer sets up a cage free farm, they exactly know what they're getting into. They've done bitsnap over simplified for them. It's not, but again, not to make it daunting, but to build capacity and say, well, you can do this, but these are the stuff that you have to keep in mind. You've got to have great biodiversity. You'll have to ensure that there's enough perching place. You need to have enrichment, not because of the birds, but just to keep the birds healthy. And then you kind of realize that almost get it. And once they get it, they want to do it.)
- Time 1:05:35
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(highlight:: "The Market is a Biggest Vigilante in the World": Fostering Systemic Change in Cage Free
Transcript:
Speaker 1
We truly believe that if there is a biggest vigilante in the world, it's the market. Like in the sense the market swings towards efficiency. It creates a system that is efficient, it destroys something that's not efficient. You might have a bubble, but the bubble bursts. And I think a lot of the times when we were talking about cage free in Asia, we were fighting against the vigilante market. And we were like, well, if we really have to get the cage free as a system to win, we got to create an ecosystem. And again, we don't forecast, we cannot forecast. But when you really look at any sort of change that's kind of happened, it's primarily been when there has been an ecosystem for change. And that kind of helps the movement. So for example, look at the growth of the Silicon Valley. If it wasn't for Stanford being there, it wasn't for the initial blue chip companies to be based there. I would be surprised if all of these companies kind of went there and they set up, right? In a sense, like there was an ecosystem. Taking some of these learnings and understanding that if we want to cage free to be successful, we got to like not fight the vigilante market, but get the vigilante market to start seeing Efficiency within cage free or higher right for production system in Asia. So we decided that it's better to set up a company that's dedicated to create an ecosystem for cage free production in the region. And when we meet ecosystem, it means like, is there a knowledge are there equipments available? Is there an efficient market system with very little friction that will make companies do this change? And also, while we might be pretty bullish or speak very highly about these cage free movements or higher welfare movements, the farmers who are in the business know the temperature Of the market better than any animal advocate would, because they're in the business every day. And when they kind of touch the market, then they're like, well, this seems a bit cold. Then you realize that, well, if it is cold, then we will have to want to get, there'll be a number of companies to invest and so on and so forth. And hence, we set up good food partners as a consulting company that works on an ecosystem approach to create a favorable market conditions for both buyers and sellers to meet these Cage free commitments, because we do believe that if it isn't for the market's market efficiencies, this movement isn't one of those successful.)
- Time 0:06:16
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(highlight:: Challenges of Transitioning to Cage-Free Egg Production
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Typically, when companies do put out commitments, we kind of think like, well, that setting out a strong market signal that the change is coming. And a lot of time, what happens is the farmers are looking for something beyond just a commitment, because when you really get the players within this ecosystem, you have the farmer Who has to do a huge amount of capital investment to transition from cage to cage free. You have a company who has to buy cage free eggs and then you have the advocacy groups who put the pressure. And of course, you have the birds. If the cage free transition fails, the birds have to lose the most, but keeping that aside in a pure market system. In this three, the only person who has the most probable scheme in the game is the egg producer, because they've now done a transition, they've taken a loan. And if companies don't buy, they're really at the brink of being bankrupt, because there isn't a market, like just an open market for cage free eggs in the region, but there's people Out of the green asking for it yet. So when I say the temperature is that when a producer wants to say, well, I have $100,000, $200,000 to invest, where do I invest? Do I expand into a new cage facility or a cage free facility? They're going to see how much money would I possibly make? What's the risk that exists? And at this point, when we were like, as I was working with the human society, we were on the other side of the table, working with companies, organizing these meetings on and so forth. When we met the producers, we realized that the producers, when they test the temperature of the waters, it's too cold. It's too cold for them to put their money to set up. And then we realized that it's cold for multiple reasons, because again, the market dynamics has multiple players. The cage free commitment is just one aspect. For example, let's take the US. If US is probably one of the most successful markets for cage transition, we realized that there were just multiple signals that went. You had all the ballot initiatives that came in, and the ballot initiatives were like, well, it's going to become illegal. Then you have all these companies, kind of major share in the egg market making these transition. Then you had a history to look at. This transition had already happened for crates. So from the producers point of view, then it always happened for crates. It's probably going to happen for eggs as well. Similarly, when you look at Asian producer, there isn't an ecosystem for legislation. They're almost certain that cages, maybe of few countries like Taiwan and South Korea being an exception, not maybe India being an exception, where there might be some sense that there Might be a legislation coming. But what it seems like, that feedback loop isn't there that it might get outlawed. So if I have to future proof, I need to invest in something that is going to be longer. They don't have a proof to say that these companies, which have made commitments, have actually placed the purchase order to make worthwhile of the commitment in terms of a business Decision. So when I mean that there isn't a temperature or there wasn't a 10-inch picture when we started was we had all these commitments, most from a producer's point of view, not what the paper They've printed in, because what they really cared was, is this transitioning into a purchase order? If I'm putting through all this effort to go, do I have enough gain at the end to make worthwhile? Because finally, as much as we talk ethics and everything, the hard reality is that the markets, as I keep saying, the vigilante markets only gravitate towards making money at the end Of it. That's it. That's all that gravitates to it. And if they don't make money, it's really, really hard to push a market. We'll see this with Plan Based, where if you might have a bubble, you have a whole bunch of investment, you have a ton of companies coming in, but it just doesn't sustain. Because finally, what you really need is the investors need to see the money, the farmers need to see the money, and it needs to be economically I think this piece is really key based on
Speaker 3
The location as well.)
- Time 0:09:20
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(highlight:: Taking a Pragmatic, Farmer-Centered Approach to Animal Welfare Improvements
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Like, you know, there's this famous quote right over all the starter houses had glass walls, everybody would be vegetarian. In India, starter houses have no wall. Like, there is no wall. Like, in the sense that you are a blessing.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So most people grow.
Speaker 1
They look at a light bird in a sharp, select the bird. The bird is slaughtered right in front of their eyes dressed, put in a plastic bag and given. So I think, again, a lot of these sensitivities that we think that is true. Similarly, with the nation to follow the nation, right, in the sense like, you know, say, oh, well, industrial animal architecture is really bad. And you have these giant companies. But when you look at Asia, you still have giant companies, but a vast majority of Asian egg producers are now again very different in the broiler system, at least the egg producers are Independent farmers as an enough small borders. They're still independent farmers. Who wake up in the morning, not to be cruel to animals. It's not like the spam is like, well, today is my day. Wake up in the morning to meet put a good meal on the table, make money. I lead that growth aspiration that every Asian including I have, like, in the sense like, that's all that's being done. And so in the sense like, when you go and talk to a farmer, say that, well, we want you to go from cage to cage three, what are you really fighting? If I think that aspiration to grow the aspiration to make money, and sometimes an aspiration just to ensure that the children are able to go to school, and there's a meat put on the table, And they don't miss a mortgage, so on and so forth. So in the sense like, so they aren't waking in the morning and say that what I need to keep these birds in cages because I am making a point, they're like, well, this is the most efficient System, and I'm going to gravitate towards that efficiency. And and hence what global food partners, we have precise so much on building capacity of farmers and farm workers with this case, we can efficient, I don't want to go back, will you listen To go back to say that world just saying that cage feels inefficient. Obviously, cage can be efficient. It's just that each is efficient when you build a producer's capacity, because when a farmer moves from when the farmer is a conventionally cage farmer, they're an egg farmer. And when they become a cage free farmer, they become a hen farmer, it's just a change in the attitude and change in what's a stop person ship looks like, the sort and so forth. And that's done with a lot of training and capacity building. So again, so broadly, to kind of close the loop on the tooler, one is, you need localized approaches and figure out and if we were to be investing in what kind of campaigns or what kind of Action, and the second important thing is, you know, for me at least is being that farmers don't wake up in the morning saying that, well, today my life's goal is to herd animals.)
- Time 0:25:41
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(highlight:: Eggs Are Purchased Based on Supplier Reliability, Low Cost, and Low Reputational Risk
Transcript:
Speaker 1
A purchasing manager at a hospitality chain does not wake up in the morning saying that I need to buy birds extra on cages, right? Like, no, nobody is actually making that decision saying that I'm buying from cages or am I buying from cage free? A purchasing manager is waking up and saying that, well, this is my line item. And what is everybody has that KPI, right? What is a what is a Marriott hotels or let's say any five star hotels just edit the name out of a company, and let's take a hospitality company, let's say a five star hotel in Pali, what is The purchasing manager's mandate? Why one of their mandate could be that they have to purchase cage free? The key mandate is that when they wake up in the when the guests wake up in the morning and come to the buffet, there has to be eggs. That particular eggs has to fall within that particular line item that's being given for perishable, right? So what what when we are asking them to change, they're looking for a reliable supplier. They're looking for some sort of reduced cost overall. And they also want to ensure that that transition doesn't create any additional reputation risk. So if you end up having a tiny cage free power, where there's a food safety issue overall on the far and let me say, and then you kind of realize that, well, I'm buying cage free, but they're Salmonella contamination because they just like picked up the eggs without washing their hands because they're a small HD farm who are not trained down for biosecurity. My reputation risk is much larger. And I think it's a real reputation with like a guest gets a some of blue for their birthday Bali. Again, to go back, and I don't want to make it seem like it's all market, but for me, at least where I stood, it's all market driven in the sense like we thought to when we're looking at buyer's Perspective, the buyer needs a reliable supply chain with low cost, which does not create additional reputation risk. A producer wants a reliable buyer who is going to buy eggs because they're doing this whole capital chain. They want reduced friction in delivering these eggs to this particular producer of a buyer, otherwise small quantity transportation, so on and so forth. And what they definitely need is capacity building and skills of the day, but to run their farmers. So I guess if you're able to create these two, the chains go to happen.)
- Time 0:40:03
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(highlight:: Companies Aren't Greedy, They Are Designed to Maximize Profits
Transcript:
Speaker 1
I think greed is a strong word. So I guess, well, it might see, but again, a company is established for a pure purpose to create maximum returns to the shareholders. Yeah. And what is a company I make in a sense. So a bunch of optimization and maybe stockable reputation risk, what are we really talking about? And the sense like, well, will my perceived value of the company drop because it's stock value is going to drop and that would create as it finally, it's all boils down to the fact that Am I able to give enough value to share, or to list it or unlisted doesn't matter. Finally, it all boils down to this companies are by design set of decade. So in that sense, companies by design, you could say that capitalism in itself is really that's where to say. But I think I'm not necessarily sure that if we were to say, well, we want we need to fight the greed and bring in altruism within the market economy. And I don't know ESG is a great example. We need to see how the markets are going to respond to ESG is it just going to be a fat bubble will actually money go in. I know that there are now ESG ETFs. We know that SaaS B is the requiring animal welfare to be reported out within the reporting platform. We have mutual funds which are there, you're able to like alter your pension funds towards one and I think groups like ARE are doing a fabulous work on trying to bring the conversation. But into the forefront of the boardrooms. But I guess there has been some amount of change, but I don't know whether the change is going to last and how long will that particular change last. So it's going to be an interesting example. And I think and it's not just going to be with animal welfare, I think it's generally with ESG overall. And we've seen, right? For example, climate financing, we have new bonds to chocolate friendly bonds. You have various financing mechanism that is kind of coming. And animal welfare somehow has to sit within and shoot shot of the AREs and groups like that for doing good amount of work to bring within forefront.)
- Time 0:43:38
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(highlight:: The Importance of Capacity Building: Preparing Farmers for a Cage to Cage-Free Transition
Transcript:
Speaker 1
And also, James, the reason why I be able to say so much on capacity building, because a lot of times I feel like as any said, right, you we oversimplify what cage free is like, oh, just go Remove the barn, put the bird saying that it's done. And some farmers do do that. And then you realize that, you know, the birds are where do you get the issues, right? Where do you get a bullet straw? The bullets have to be rare in a similar environment in which they're going to be there for their laying period. So, if you take a bullet, so just to kind of say, for your listeners might not know this term, so most of the egg leggings come as a day old chick, and they're really in a raring facility where They're brought together with like lights and heat light and so on and so forth, till they start reach their sexual maturity age, like till they're basically called as full ups at that Point of time, where they're right about to lay eggs. And in most cases, from a raring facility, they're moved to a laying facility. There could be cases where you have all in all out systems where you bring in their chicken, they stay in that same farm, but that's very rare, because by the time this bird comes to cull, You want to have the next bird ready. So, most farms will end up having a raring facility and a laying facility. Now, what's really important is that the bird needs to be familiar on the laying facility and the raring, because they have to be familiar to the bird. If it's too vastly different, the bird's like, where do you suddenly brought me? In a sense, like, so in a sense, it has to meet the same temperature. It's an animal, right? It's like, you've read this, or it in, let's say, a cage, and then you suddenly brought the bird from a cage to cage free and put the bird in laying stage in a cage free system, then the bird's Like, I have no idea how to navigate this complex maze of perches and stuff like that. So, I guess it's very important. And then, if farmers simplify, they take their cage, pull it, put them in a cage facility, then you end up having issues like the birds don't know how to use their nest box. They don't know how to budge. They end up laying eggs on the floor. Sometimes, if there isn't enough nutrition, sort of, feel that kind of matches for cage free, you might end up having feather pecking as an issue, which is there. You don't have enough enrichment that can be feather pecking. And all of this can show your flock pretty quickly. You have a feather pecking, not like, feather pecking to cannibalism is a thin line. So, you never know when the behavior of feather pecking can move towards cannibalism, and then that's it. So, and I guess the issue is this, right? If you have a cage free farm, and if that particular cage free farm fails, the farmer is always going to believe the system and say that, oh my god, this is the reason why you need to keep In cages. If there's a cage farm and the birds die, they're going to blame themselves, say that we did something wrong, right? Because that's it. That's the people's mind. So, in that sense, and hence, we want to ensure that when a farmer sets up a cage free farm, they exactly know what they're getting into. They've done bitsnap over simplified for them. It's not, but again, not to make it daunting, but to build capacity and say, well, you can do this, but these are the stuff that you have to keep in mind. You've got to have great biodiversity. You'll have to ensure that there's enough perching place. You need to have enrichment, not because of the birds, but just to keep the birds healthy. And then you kind of realize that almost get it. And once they get it, they want to do it. It's just that somebody has to build that capacity.)
- Time 1:03:29
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(highlight:: 1min Snip
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Sometimes, if there isn't enough nutrition, sort of, feel that kind of matches for cage free, you might end up having feather pecking as an issue, which is there. You don't have enough enrichment that can be feather pecking. And all of this can show your flock pretty quickly. You have a feather pecking, not like, feather pecking to cannibalism is a thin line. So, you never know when the behavior of feather pecking can move towards cannibalism, and then that's it. So, and I guess the issue is this, right? If you have a cage free farm, and if that particular cage free farm fails, the farmer is always going to believe the system and say that, oh my god, this is the reason why you need to keep In cages. If there's a cage farm and the birds die, they're going to blame themselves, say that we did something wrong, right? Because that's it. That's the people's mind. So, in that sense, and hence, we want to ensure that when a farmer sets up a cage free farm, they exactly know what they're getting into. They've done bitsnap over simplified for them. It's not, but again, not to make it daunting, but to build capacity and say, well, you can do this, but these are the stuff that you have to keep in mind. You've got to have great biodiversity. You'll have to ensure that there's enough perching place. You need to have enrichment, not because of the birds, but just to keep the birds healthy. And then you kind of realize that almost get it. And once they get it, they want to do it.)
- Time 1:05:35
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(highlight:: Importance of Proper Nutrition and Enrichment in Cage Free Farming
Summary:
Proper nutrition and enrichment are crucial in cage free farms to prevent issues like feather pecking which can lead to cannibalism.
Lack of enrichment can lead to quick deterioration in the flock. It is essential to understand the responsibilities and requirements of setting up a cage free farm to ensure success and prevent blaming the system or oneself when issues arise.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Sometimes, if there isn't enough nutrition, sort of, feel that kind of matches for cage free, you might end up having feather pecking as an issue, which is there. You don't have enough enrichment that can be feather pecking. And all of this can show your flock pretty quickly. You have a feather pecking, not like, feather pecking to cannibalism is a thin line. So, you never know when the behavior of feather pecking can move towards cannibalism, and then that's it. So, and I guess the issue is this, right? If you have a cage free farm, and if that particular cage free farm fails, the farmer is always going to believe the system and say that, oh my god, this is the reason why you need to keep In cages. If there's a cage farm and the birds die, they're going to blame themselves, say that we did something wrong, right? Because that's it. That's the people's mind. So, in that sense, and hence, we want to ensure that when a farmer sets up a cage free farm, they exactly know what they're getting into. They've done bitsnap over simplified for them. It's not, but again, not to make it daunting, but to build capacity and say, well, you can do this, but these are the stuff that you have to keep in mind. You've got to have great biodiversity. You'll have to ensure that there's enough perching place. You need to have enrichment, not because of the birds, but just to keep the birds healthy. And then you kind of realize that almost get it. And once they get it, they want to do it.)
- Time 1:05:35
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