(highlight:: Not Feeling Like It Is Not An Excuse to Flake
Transcript:
Speaker 3
I think to a certain degree it's always been the norm that if you don't feel well or if an emergency happens if you've got a stomach bug that's understandable that's not flaking out that's Life happening and getting in the way of fun social plans. Yeah. But I do think that there is a larger trend of being much more willing to let the emotional do I feel like it play a factor in whether or not they end up committing to or actually following Through on plans or that yeah the sense that the plans that we make are not set in stone or what takes precedence is like just needing to do what's best for you. Well and some people even say that it's like an insult to the friendship of getting together that it's like oh hanging out with me sounds like a chore for you right now and there are times Where that's true we get it like we all have learned that bandwidths like have capacities I get it. I don't know that we need to be leaning into that like every week.)
- Time 0:05:11
-

(highlight:: Good Company v.s. Good Friendship
Transcript:
Speaker 2
The difference between good friend versus good company. Good company I like you as a person. We enjoy our time together. We have good conversations. Good friendship. A friend is it someone you invest in? It is a commitment. It is I'm showing up in your times of need. It is I'm doing things that sometimes might inconvenience me because I'm thinking about how much they'll mean to you. It is I'm going to celebrate your successes. It's I'm going to follow through with what I say that I will do to the extent possible. It's I'm basically considering you and I'm considering your needs and I think in a lot of our culture we're stuck on good company and we haven't gotten to good friendship.)
- Time 0:18:58
-

(highlight:: Setting Expectations in Friendship
Key takeaways:
• Friendship involves commitment and investing in someone.
• Good friendship requires showing up in times of need and celebrating successes.
• Setting expectations in a friendship requires open communication and taking a risk.
• It's okay to talk about friendship expectations in an upfront way.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
How do you set those expectations in a friendship when it is a voluntary relationship?
Speaker 2
With communication like I've had to tell friends for example I would love to hear from you more. I noticed I'm often the one here reaching out. Would you be open to that? And it's taking that risk right because it is a risk because that could lead them to say this person expects you much. I'm a back away but it could also lead them to say yeah I'm going to show up and I'm going to reinvest and I'm going to make sure Marissa feels like she's in a reciprocal friendship. It's also okay to like just talk about it in a more upfront way.)
- Time 0:19:37
-

(highlight:: Cultivating Friendship: Assume People Like You
Key takeaways:
• Assuming people like you triggers warmth and openness which makes it more likely to be true.
• Assuming people like you leads to more intimacy and less need to set up specific times to communicate.
• People tend to be more cynical about how they come off but it's often not true.
• Imagining how we would feel if a friend asked us for help can help reduce anxiety about asking for help.
Transcript:
Speaker 2
So one thing that I always talk about with making friends is assume people like you because it's going to trigger a set of behaviors warmth openness that is going to make that more likely To be true. But I also think the more we assume people like us the more intimacy that we have with them. So the more we assume they're just going to want to hear from me on the phone. I don't have to set up this time to call. I'm assuming that you love me. I teach a class on loneliness and one of my students is like I just think if I had to go to the hospital in the middle of the night like who could I call? And I'm like how would you feel if one of the friends that you made reached out to you in the middle of the night because they needed help with going to the hospital. He says I would feel totally honored that they picked me. And the problem is when it comes to our glitchy brains when we're predicting how we come off we tend to be a lot more cynical and negative than what is the truth. Especially with asking for help from friends. I get really nervous about it and I take myself through that exercise where I'm like well what if this friend asked me for the same thing. How would I feel that's probably the more accurate outcome? Yeah.)
- Time 0:22:03
- friendship, asking for help, vulnerability, likability, relationships,

(highlight:: Communal v.s. Individualistic Boundaries in Relationships
Transcript:
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think the self-focused boundaries look like in a sort of overarching way. I'm going to fulfill my needs no matter what your needs are which looks like, hey, you know, if you call me really upset at 10 p.m. I'm not going to answer or hey, like I don't need to make time for you because at this time in my life I'm very, very busy. To me, setting a boundary is a communal act. It's like I set this boundary for myself so I can invest in our friendship in the long term and not get burnt out. And it's, I'm going to consider your needs when I set this boundary. And it's almost like a I'm going to set this boundary and also offer an offering like, oh, I'm not free to talk at that time. What about another time? Or even like, you know, I'm not free to come to that but I'm rooting for you and I'm supporting you. Sometimes it's just the affirmation that's the offering.
Speaker 1
Do you have a sense of why you think that is a genre of boundaries that's become popular? Is it sort of self-care, the sense that this is self-care and I need to put my own oxygen mask on before I can put on yours? Yeah, I think about for a lot of like friendship behaviors, there's a emotional incongruency.
Speaker 2
What I mean is that your experience of this act is very different from your friends in a way that you're not always privy to. So you might set this boundary thinking about, oh, I'm really busy and this is going to benefit me. But when your friend receives that boundary, they're feeling like I'm so alone and I have no one in this moment where I really, really need someone. And so there's just this, I guess, this disconnect between our two emotional worlds in that moment because if we're only thinking about our reality it makes a lot of sense. But when we think about our co-realities, our reality and the other person's reality, then we might realize that even if this act benefits us, the cost for our friend or far greater, You know, when you have a healthy relationship, what happens is you begin to include them in your sense of self. So there's a disconnect happening when you're willing to completely upset and let down your friend to meet your own needs. And that's kind of what I'm referring to with these individualistic boundaries, which is like, I'm going to get 100% of my needs met even if 0% of your needs are going to be met. The communal boundary is to protect the relationship. The individualistic boundaries to protect yourself.)
- Time 0:24:43
-

(highlight:: Effort v.s. Work in Friendship
Key takeaways:
• Friendship takes effort, not necessarily work.
• Norms in our culture can undermine friendships without realizing it.
• Queer communities value friendship more and could teach hetero people a lot.
• Relationship anarchy allows individuals to choose their own hierarchy of relationships, valuing friends as much as potential spouses.
Transcript:
Speaker 2
So I like the idea of friendship taking effort rather than friendship taking work. What I want to convey is that in friendship, we're going to be in convenience. In friendship, we're going to do things that we don't want to do. In friendship, we are going to have to go out of our way and take initiative and be proactive and all of those things. And I think those all fit into the realm of effort. But when we say work, it's almost like it's something that we don't want.
Speaker 1
I mean, I don't think most people's intentions are usually bad. It just seems like some of the norms in our culture are steering us towards undermining our friendships without maybe realizing it, where if it is something that you really want to prioritize That in your life, it feels a little bit like swimming against a current. It does.
Speaker 2
It can feel like unrequited love a lot. But I will say there's also sub-communities, like queer communities, where it's a lot more common for people to put a lot more value on friendship. And there's talks about asexual communities. There's talks about platonic life partners. I think queer communities are the pioneers of friendship and could teach hetero people a lot. I don't know if you've heard the term relationship anarchy, but it's um...
Speaker 1
No, what can you explain? One of my fates.
Speaker 2
It's this idea that we don't need to use what society has told us as our guide post for the value that we place on different types of relationships. We can choose what resonates most with us. And my choice is I want to value, again, friends as much as a potential spouse. Like that's the hierarchy that I would want in my life in the larger anarchy framework. If you start from a place of anarchy, where would you want friends to be in your personal valuing system?)
- Time 0:28:00
-

(highlight:: Adopting Relationship Anarchy to Redefine What Friendship Means to You
Key takeaways:
• Relationship anarchy is an idea of valuing different types of relationships based on personal choice rather than societal norms.
• Under relationship anarchy, friends can be valued equally to potential spouses.
• Personal valuing systems under relationship anarchy can prioritize friends as important relationships.
Transcript:
Speaker 2
I think queer communities are the pioneers of friendship and could teach hetero people a lot. I don't know if you've heard the term relationship anarchy, but it's um...
Speaker 1
No, what can you explain? One of my fates.
Speaker 2
It's this idea that we don't need to use what society has told us as our guide post for the value that we place on different types of relationships. We can choose what resonates most with us. And my choice is I want to value, again, friends as much as a potential spouse. Like that's the hierarchy that I would want in my life in the larger anarchy framework. If you start from a place of anarchy, where would you want friends to be in your personal valuing system?)
- Time 0:29:10
-

You Are Allowed to Miss Your Friends (Culture of Passivity in Friendship
Key takeaways:
• Don't minimize wanting to hang out with a friend.
• There is a culture of passivity in friendships.
• Being passive makes it hard to keep up a friendship.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
But also like, you don't have to minimize wanting to hang out with your friend by like pretending you're acting like a needy boyfriend. Like you are allowed to miss your friend. Totally. No, it's that study I referenced earlier that was talking about a culture of passivity. It was sort of focusing on conflict. But I would venture to say that there's kind of a culture of passivity in the good times as well. You know, where friendship is too often like a relationship of convenience or we'll go with the flow and I'll see you when I see you. And it's hard to actually keep up a friendship if you're being passive in that way. And you just expect it to come effortlessly.)
- Time 0:30:48
-

(highlight:: Not Feeling Like It Is Not An Excuse to Flake
Transcript:
Speaker 3
I think to a certain degree it's always been the norm that if you don't feel well or if an emergency happens if you've got a stomach bug that's understandable that's not flaking out that's Life happening and getting in the way of fun social plans. Yeah. But I do think that there is a larger trend of being much more willing to let the emotional do I feel like it play a factor in whether or not they end up committing to or actually following Through on plans or that yeah the sense that the plans that we make are not set in stone or what takes precedence is like just needing to do what's best for you. Well and some people even say that it's like an insult to the friendship of getting together that it's like oh hanging out with me sounds like a chore for you right now and there are times Where that's true we get it like we all have learned that bandwidths like have capacities I get it. I don't know that we need to be leaning into that like every week.)
- Time 0:05:11
-

(highlight:: Good Company v.s. Good Friendship
Transcript:
Speaker 2
The difference between good friend versus good company. Good company I like you as a person. We enjoy our time together. We have good conversations. Good friendship. A friend is it someone you invest in? It is a commitment. It is I'm showing up in your times of need. It is I'm doing things that sometimes might inconvenience me because I'm thinking about how much they'll mean to you. It is I'm going to celebrate your successes. It's I'm going to follow through with what I say that I will do to the extent possible. It's I'm basically considering you and I'm considering your needs and I think in a lot of our culture we're stuck on good company and we haven't gotten to good friendship.)
- Time 0:18:58
-

(highlight:: Setting Expectations in Friendship
Key takeaways:
• Friendship involves commitment and investing in someone.
• Good friendship requires showing up in times of need and celebrating successes.
• Setting expectations in a friendship requires open communication and taking a risk.
• It's okay to talk about friendship expectations in an upfront way.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
How do you set those expectations in a friendship when it is a voluntary relationship?
Speaker 2
With communication like I've had to tell friends for example I would love to hear from you more. I noticed I'm often the one here reaching out. Would you be open to that? And it's taking that risk right because it is a risk because that could lead them to say this person expects you much. I'm a back away but it could also lead them to say yeah I'm going to show up and I'm going to reinvest and I'm going to make sure Marissa feels like she's in a reciprocal friendship. It's also okay to like just talk about it in a more upfront way.)
- Time 0:19:37
-

(highlight:: Cultivating Friendship: Assume People Like You
Key takeaways:
• Assuming people like you triggers warmth and openness which makes it more likely to be true.
• Assuming people like you leads to more intimacy and less need to set up specific times to communicate.
• People tend to be more cynical about how they come off but it's often not true.
• Imagining how we would feel if a friend asked us for help can help reduce anxiety about asking for help.
Transcript:
Speaker 2
So one thing that I always talk about with making friends is assume people like you because it's going to trigger a set of behaviors warmth openness that is going to make that more likely To be true. But I also think the more we assume people like us the more intimacy that we have with them. So the more we assume they're just going to want to hear from me on the phone. I don't have to set up this time to call. I'm assuming that you love me. I teach a class on loneliness and one of my students is like I just think if I had to go to the hospital in the middle of the night like who could I call? And I'm like how would you feel if one of the friends that you made reached out to you in the middle of the night because they needed help with going to the hospital. He says I would feel totally honored that they picked me. And the problem is when it comes to our glitchy brains when we're predicting how we come off we tend to be a lot more cynical and negative than what is the truth. Especially with asking for help from friends. I get really nervous about it and I take myself through that exercise where I'm like well what if this friend asked me for the same thing. How would I feel that's probably the more accurate outcome? Yeah.)
- Time 0:22:03
- friendship, asking for help, vulnerability, likability, relationships,

(highlight:: Communal v.s. Individualistic Boundaries in Relationships
Transcript:
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think the self-focused boundaries look like in a sort of overarching way. I'm going to fulfill my needs no matter what your needs are which looks like, hey, you know, if you call me really upset at 10 p.m. I'm not going to answer or hey, like I don't need to make time for you because at this time in my life I'm very, very busy. To me, setting a boundary is a communal act. It's like I set this boundary for myself so I can invest in our friendship in the long term and not get burnt out. And it's, I'm going to consider your needs when I set this boundary. And it's almost like a I'm going to set this boundary and also offer an offering like, oh, I'm not free to talk at that time. What about another time? Or even like, you know, I'm not free to come to that but I'm rooting for you and I'm supporting you. Sometimes it's just the affirmation that's the offering.
Speaker 1
Do you have a sense of why you think that is a genre of boundaries that's become popular? Is it sort of self-care, the sense that this is self-care and I need to put my own oxygen mask on before I can put on yours? Yeah, I think about for a lot of like friendship behaviors, there's a emotional incongruency.
Speaker 2
What I mean is that your experience of this act is very different from your friends in a way that you're not always privy to. So you might set this boundary thinking about, oh, I'm really busy and this is going to benefit me. But when your friend receives that boundary, they're feeling like I'm so alone and I have no one in this moment where I really, really need someone. And so there's just this, I guess, this disconnect between our two emotional worlds in that moment because if we're only thinking about our reality it makes a lot of sense. But when we think about our co-realities, our reality and the other person's reality, then we might realize that even if this act benefits us, the cost for our friend or far greater, You know, when you have a healthy relationship, what happens is you begin to include them in your sense of self. So there's a disconnect happening when you're willing to completely upset and let down your friend to meet your own needs. And that's kind of what I'm referring to with these individualistic boundaries, which is like, I'm going to get 100% of my needs met even if 0% of your needs are going to be met. The communal boundary is to protect the relationship. The individualistic boundaries to protect yourself.)
- Time 0:24:43
-

(highlight:: Effort v.s. Work in Friendship
Key takeaways:
• Friendship takes effort, not necessarily work.
• Norms in our culture can undermine friendships without realizing it.
• Queer communities value friendship more and could teach hetero people a lot.
• Relationship anarchy allows individuals to choose their own hierarchy of relationships, valuing friends as much as potential spouses.
Transcript:
Speaker 2
So I like the idea of friendship taking effort rather than friendship taking work. What I want to convey is that in friendship, we're going to be in convenience. In friendship, we're going to do things that we don't want to do. In friendship, we are going to have to go out of our way and take initiative and be proactive and all of those things. And I think those all fit into the realm of effort. But when we say work, it's almost like it's something that we don't want.
Speaker 1
I mean, I don't think most people's intentions are usually bad. It just seems like some of the norms in our culture are steering us towards undermining our friendships without maybe realizing it, where if it is something that you really want to prioritize That in your life, it feels a little bit like swimming against a current. It does.
Speaker 2
It can feel like unrequited love a lot. But I will say there's also sub-communities, like queer communities, where it's a lot more common for people to put a lot more value on friendship. And there's talks about asexual communities. There's talks about platonic life partners. I think queer communities are the pioneers of friendship and could teach hetero people a lot. I don't know if you've heard the term relationship anarchy, but it's um...
Speaker 1
No, what can you explain? One of my fates.
Speaker 2
It's this idea that we don't need to use what society has told us as our guide post for the value that we place on different types of relationships. We can choose what resonates most with us. And my choice is I want to value, again, friends as much as a potential spouse. Like that's the hierarchy that I would want in my life in the larger anarchy framework. If you start from a place of anarchy, where would you want friends to be in your personal valuing system?)
- Time 0:28:00
-

(highlight:: Adopting Relationship Anarchy to Redefine What Friendship Means to You
Key takeaways:
• Relationship anarchy is an idea of valuing different types of relationships based on personal choice rather than societal norms.
• Under relationship anarchy, friends can be valued equally to potential spouses.
• Personal valuing systems under relationship anarchy can prioritize friends as important relationships.
Transcript:
Speaker 2
I think queer communities are the pioneers of friendship and could teach hetero people a lot. I don't know if you've heard the term relationship anarchy, but it's um...
Speaker 1
No, what can you explain? One of my fates.
Speaker 2
It's this idea that we don't need to use what society has told us as our guide post for the value that we place on different types of relationships. We can choose what resonates most with us. And my choice is I want to value, again, friends as much as a potential spouse. Like that's the hierarchy that I would want in my life in the larger anarchy framework. If you start from a place of anarchy, where would you want friends to be in your personal valuing system?)
- Time 0:29:10
-

You Are Allowed to Miss Your Friends (Culture of Passivity in Friendship
Key takeaways:
• Don't minimize wanting to hang out with a friend.
• There is a culture of passivity in friendships.
• Being passive makes it hard to keep up a friendship.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
But also like, you don't have to minimize wanting to hang out with your friend by like pretending you're acting like a needy boyfriend. Like you are allowed to miss your friend. Totally. No, it's that study I referenced earlier that was talking about a culture of passivity. It was sort of focusing on conflict. But I would venture to say that there's kind of a culture of passivity in the good times as well. You know, where friendship is too often like a relationship of convenience or we'll go with the flow and I'll see you when I see you. And it's hard to actually keep up a friendship if you're being passive in that way. And you just expect it to come effortlessly.)
- Time 0:30:48
-