Marcia Bates on Search Systems
@tags:: #litā/š§podcast/highlights
@links::
@ref:: Marcia Bates on Search Systems
@author:: The Informed Life
=this.file.name
Reference
=this.ref
Notes
(highlight:: Leveraging keyword clusters to improve the usability of search systems
Key takeaways:
ā¢ Design a user-centered vocabulary for information systems.
ā¢ Create a thesaurus for the searcher of thesaurus.
ā¢ Design the interface to display clusters of related terms for better search results.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
One of the things that I've argued for my whole career is that you need to design a user centered vocabulary, not the indexing vocabulary, but the things that people come up with when They're approaching an information system are distinctive and connected with each other in different ways from the way that formal indexing is done. And you need to design a thesaurus for the searcher that is a searcher of thesaurus. And then you need to design the interface so that people can see clusters of terms around that topic. For instance, if you look up in Google on under migration, you'll find that they've done a beautiful job. Every item on the page has the word migration featured in it. But somebody who's interested in, you know, that that's the word that comes to mind when they go in the input migration, when they're really interested in asylum seekers, but they didn't Think of that word to use. But when you show them a cluster of related terms, they can see immediate. Oh, yeah, that's what I meant. And click on that instead and get things much more relevant to their interests.)
- TimeĀ 0:03:14
-
(highlight:: Website search systems still suck
Summary:
"Most of those within website search systems are abominable. They're throwbacks to the 70s," he says. "They're just simple, left to right search match things."
Transcript:
Speaker 1
In my experience, most of those within website search systems are abominable. They're throwbacks to the 70s. They're just simple, left to right search match things. Often, it's not made clear what you're searching. For instance, it turns out that you're just searching their press release database. And you actually put the term in because you were trying to find some feature or element of the actual website. And you put that in and says zero results. So I think these things are very unledgable to the typical searcher. And often are designed in ways that are not very helpful for people.)
- TimeĀ 0:10:02
-
(highlight:: The need for open source taxonomies
Key takeaways:
ā¢ A website could collect digitized vocabularies, classification schemes, sori, index languages, and other similar resources that people could borrow from for their own local situation.
ā¢ It's inefficient to redo complex labor when people have already done it. Taking advantage of what others have done could aid tremendously.
ā¢ There should be more vocabulary support for searchers on websites or at Google to help people find specific information on different topics that have unique vocabularies.
ā¢ Many available resources are proprietary and not easily accessible to everyone.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
I think there should be a website that you can go to and collect. Look at all of these digitized vocabularies, classification schemes, the sori, index languages, all the different things that they call them. And maybe, you know, borrow some of these to use part or all for your own local situation. And I mean, it's just absurd that we redo the labor. And of course, because it's so complex, they don't redo very much of it because it's too much to do. Well, if you took advantage of what people have already done, that could aid this tremendously. And I've long felt that there should be the vocabulary support for searchers at websites or at Google that are very that have, you know, you might be able to pick out different ones. Well, this is where you'll find all the details of cooking vocabulary. And this one is animals, but from a wildlife rather than a biological, straight biological perspective. So you have a little database of things about wild. So I mean, there's so many different ways these can be constructed. And so many of them, they're available out there, but often are proprietary, because the creators of them don't want to share it with anybody. And I think there's so much.)
- TimeĀ 0:11:27
-
(highlight:: The Need for Open Source Clustered Thesauri to Improve Search Systems
Key takeaways:
ā¢ A librarian named Sarah Knapp wrote a book on the need for users search vocabularies, which has been ignored despite being a collection of clusters of vocabulary terms that work for online searches.
ā¢ The host of the podcast will link the book up in the show notes.
ā¢ The fact that even someone in the industry hadn't heard of Sarah Knapp's book proves the host's point on the need for users search vocabularies.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
There are things that librarians learned in this, especially with the early online systems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s that we still haven't applied in the web world because nobody listens To librarians. Now, the particular thing that really galls me about this, you know, I've been arguing through this whole session about the need for users search vocabularies. And one librarian actually wrote a book about this. And she developed all of these clusters of vocabulary terms that she found worked when she did online searches for her customers. And she collected this from a lot of other people. It wasn't just her own work. And she published it. And it has just been nice, bring it up every once in a while. It's just been totally ignored. Her name was Sarah Knapp. And it's, I think it's called a contemporary the SARS social science terms or something like that. And it exactly personifies what I've been arguing for 40 years and what I haven't been able to get people to do.)
- TimeĀ 0:16:03
-
Two questions to ask when searching for information (that most people never think to ask
Key takeaways:
ā¢ Search strategy is often unconscious and people don't think of themselves as seeking information.
ā¢ To improve information seeking, people should become aware of when they are actually seeking information to solve a problem in life.
ā¢ Noticing these moments can make people conscious that they are engaging in the activity of searching for information.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Search strategy, you know, how you're going about finding information is not something that most people ever do. You know, it's all kind of unconscious. You just, you know, occasionally you want to know when the Beatles first album came out. And so then you look up in Google and you find a date and you're conscious of searching for information. But most of the time, when they're searching for information, they're actually solving a problem in life. They have something they have to do and they're trying to figure out they need to get the information in order to do it. But they don't think of themselves as seeking information. So it's quite unconscious, they're problem solving, but they're not information seeking. And if you want to improve your information seeking, I suggest two things. Number one, notice when you're solving the problem, going about doing something, notice when what you're actually seeking is information. You're not solving your problem by driving to the doctor or something, you're solving your problem by looking for information about the doctor. So notice those moments because then it makes you conscious that you are engaging in this activity of searching for information. And once you make it conscious, point number two, is you can ask yourself, what is my strategy? Might there be a better way to find this, a better source to find this? Yeah, I went to the web because that's your automatic first thing. But maybe there's something, you know, academic libraries, all the information is available to you on the web, go to the academic library and maybe find a whole database on the subject. You know, instead of having to search all over the web for 47 different things. So the point is, notice when you are actually searching for information in your problem solving, and then ask yourself, is this the best way to find it?)
- TimeĀ 0:21:36
-
dg-publish: true
created: 2024-07-01
modified: 2024-07-01
title: Marcia Bates on Search Systems
source: snipd
@tags:: #litā/š§podcast/highlights
@links::
@ref:: Marcia Bates on Search Systems
@author:: The Informed Life
=this.file.name
Reference
=this.ref
Notes
(highlight:: Leveraging keyword clusters to improve the usability of search systems
Key takeaways:
ā¢ Design a user-centered vocabulary for information systems.
ā¢ Create a thesaurus for the searcher of thesaurus.
ā¢ Design the interface to display clusters of related terms for better search results.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
One of the things that I've argued for my whole career is that you need to design a user centered vocabulary, not the indexing vocabulary, but the things that people come up with when They're approaching an information system are distinctive and connected with each other in different ways from the way that formal indexing is done. And you need to design a thesaurus for the searcher that is a searcher of thesaurus. And then you need to design the interface so that people can see clusters of terms around that topic. For instance, if you look up in Google on under migration, you'll find that they've done a beautiful job. Every item on the page has the word migration featured in it. But somebody who's interested in, you know, that that's the word that comes to mind when they go in the input migration, when they're really interested in asylum seekers, but they didn't Think of that word to use. But when you show them a cluster of related terms, they can see immediate. Oh, yeah, that's what I meant. And click on that instead and get things much more relevant to their interests.)
- TimeĀ 0:03:14
-
(highlight:: Website search systems still suck
Summary:
"Most of those within website search systems are abominable. They're throwbacks to the 70s," he says. "They're just simple, left to right search match things."
Transcript:
Speaker 1
In my experience, most of those within website search systems are abominable. They're throwbacks to the 70s. They're just simple, left to right search match things. Often, it's not made clear what you're searching. For instance, it turns out that you're just searching their press release database. And you actually put the term in because you were trying to find some feature or element of the actual website. And you put that in and says zero results. So I think these things are very unledgable to the typical searcher. And often are designed in ways that are not very helpful for people.)
- TimeĀ 0:10:02
-
(highlight:: The need for open source taxonomies
Key takeaways:
ā¢ A website could collect digitized vocabularies, classification schemes, sori, index languages, and other similar resources that people could borrow from for their own local situation.
ā¢ It's inefficient to redo complex labor when people have already done it. Taking advantage of what others have done could aid tremendously.
ā¢ There should be more vocabulary support for searchers on websites or at Google to help people find specific information on different topics that have unique vocabularies.
ā¢ Many available resources are proprietary and not easily accessible to everyone.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
I think there should be a website that you can go to and collect. Look at all of these digitized vocabularies, classification schemes, the sori, index languages, all the different things that they call them. And maybe, you know, borrow some of these to use part or all for your own local situation. And I mean, it's just absurd that we redo the labor. And of course, because it's so complex, they don't redo very much of it because it's too much to do. Well, if you took advantage of what people have already done, that could aid this tremendously. And I've long felt that there should be the vocabulary support for searchers at websites or at Google that are very that have, you know, you might be able to pick out different ones. Well, this is where you'll find all the details of cooking vocabulary. And this one is animals, but from a wildlife rather than a biological, straight biological perspective. So you have a little database of things about wild. So I mean, there's so many different ways these can be constructed. And so many of them, they're available out there, but often are proprietary, because the creators of them don't want to share it with anybody. And I think there's so much.)
- TimeĀ 0:11:27
-
(highlight:: The Need for Open Source Clustered Thesauri to Improve Search Systems
Key takeaways:
ā¢ A librarian named Sarah Knapp wrote a book on the need for users search vocabularies, which has been ignored despite being a collection of clusters of vocabulary terms that work for online searches.
ā¢ The host of the podcast will link the book up in the show notes.
ā¢ The fact that even someone in the industry hadn't heard of Sarah Knapp's book proves the host's point on the need for users search vocabularies.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
There are things that librarians learned in this, especially with the early online systems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s that we still haven't applied in the web world because nobody listens To librarians. Now, the particular thing that really galls me about this, you know, I've been arguing through this whole session about the need for users search vocabularies. And one librarian actually wrote a book about this. And she developed all of these clusters of vocabulary terms that she found worked when she did online searches for her customers. And she collected this from a lot of other people. It wasn't just her own work. And she published it. And it has just been nice, bring it up every once in a while. It's just been totally ignored. Her name was Sarah Knapp. And it's, I think it's called a contemporary the SARS social science terms or something like that. And it exactly personifies what I've been arguing for 40 years and what I haven't been able to get people to do.)
- TimeĀ 0:16:03
-
Two questions to ask when searching for information (that most people never think to ask
Key takeaways:
ā¢ Search strategy is often unconscious and people don't think of themselves as seeking information.
ā¢ To improve information seeking, people should become aware of when they are actually seeking information to solve a problem in life.
ā¢ Noticing these moments can make people conscious that they are engaging in the activity of searching for information.
Transcript:
Speaker 1
Search strategy, you know, how you're going about finding information is not something that most people ever do. You know, it's all kind of unconscious. You just, you know, occasionally you want to know when the Beatles first album came out. And so then you look up in Google and you find a date and you're conscious of searching for information. But most of the time, when they're searching for information, they're actually solving a problem in life. They have something they have to do and they're trying to figure out they need to get the information in order to do it. But they don't think of themselves as seeking information. So it's quite unconscious, they're problem solving, but they're not information seeking. And if you want to improve your information seeking, I suggest two things. Number one, notice when you're solving the problem, going about doing something, notice when what you're actually seeking is information. You're not solving your problem by driving to the doctor or something, you're solving your problem by looking for information about the doctor. So notice those moments because then it makes you conscious that you are engaging in this activity of searching for information. And once you make it conscious, point number two, is you can ask yourself, what is my strategy? Might there be a better way to find this, a better source to find this? Yeah, I went to the web because that's your automatic first thing. But maybe there's something, you know, academic libraries, all the information is available to you on the web, go to the academic library and maybe find a whole database on the subject. You know, instead of having to search all over the web for 47 different things. So the point is, notice when you are actually searching for information in your problem solving, and then ask yourself, is this the best way to find it?)
- TimeĀ 0:21:36
-