A lot of us are a bit too busy fighting our own liberation too think too hard or too effectively on the liberation of white men from the same systems that privileged them the most. And it feels fu****g stupid. And in many cases like a complete waste of time to engage with white men and boys in conversations that analyses and breaks down elements of their lived experiences and identities the same way we often do our own, because they don't really have that muscle a lot of the time. It's hard for them to even start them down that path initially because it basically requires them to completely reframe their understanding of the world and the self to even state to make sense of it.But it is to a point where we've greatly fallen behind where even though we do have a ton of cis-het white men in this space on the Left, the actual explicit analysis of whiteness and maleness is lacking. And it's even lacking also in academia.If I were a "normal" 13 year old white boy and I was struggling socially, or I was struggling emotionally, or I was struggling with an ace and an adverse childhood experience and maybe I'm a product of white habitus so even though I don't outwardly hate of take issue with people of other races or queer people or women, i also don't quite have the best filters for recognizing harmful and aggressive beliefs about those groups. Maybe I'm into anime or gaming because those spaces make me feel good and those communities affirm me, and give me a sense of belonging and identity that I don't get in other social spaces.Whatever the case, if I was looking for help and I was looking for something to aid me in a way that made sense form my specific unique intersection among people that I tend to trust, unless there was someone truly there to aid me right on time in a specific journey into a progress and, like, useful emotional framework, I'd probably end up in the Manosphere.
- No location available
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In Contrapoints video about Men, she talks about something similar: men don't have a lot of positive role models that allow them to reflect on their own condition or drive them away from the Manosphere, and she herself didn't know where to go from there. She didn't have the solutions on how men should liberate themselves because it's not something anyone has thought about seriously.And I think it's because being a man is seen as a hierarchical state in itself. You're at the top of the pyramid, you don't have any problems compared to the rest of the pyramid. Except that's not how it works, as the people at the top of the pyramid are not just men, they're rich and powerful men. And the Manosphere will try to make you believe you're one of them, while hiding the fact that you're just a pawn for those people, and that the average man is just as screwed as anyone else. They'll work for those same powerful men, perpetuate the myths and gender roles that help those men stay in power, and keep the patriarchal machine going. And they'll drive home the point that if you as a man are failing, it's not because you haven't understood where you actually stand, but because other people are trying to drive you down.The rigidity of men's gender roles is enforced to keep this system going, and since the models that presented to us are ''successful men'', a lot of younger men fail to see beyond it. And society doesn't want to show them anything else. It's extremely hard as a cis het guy to find anything worth working towards if you're trying to follow someone else's example. And I feel like compared to women and queer folk, there's an extreme lack of positive representation that would allow younger men to question themselves and ask what makes those positive models work, and how they can work to be like them.
- No location available
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In Contrapoints video about Men, she talks about something similar: men don't have a lot of positive role models that allow them to reflect on their own condition or drive them away from the Manosphere, and she herself didn't know where to go from there. She didn't have the solutions on how men should liberate themselves because it's not something anyone has thought about seriously.I always find this kind of confusing.Like, the vast majority of my role models are cis white men. Freaking Karl Marx has a take on how men should liberate themselves.More and more it feels like men have plenty of role models, the problem is the universalization of the "cis white guy" as a role model. The ease with which it can be dismissed as "not for them" because it's "for everyone" or something.I mean, I am having a genuinely hard time thinking of anyone I have admired in the past decade and a half who is not a cis man who I just like... Randomly came upon as a cool person.I always had to seek people out from other demographics, while cis guys rained down upon me. I like science communication? There's a cis guy for that. I like writing? There's ten podcasts full of cis men ready to provide. I get briefly into chess? Cis men! Cis men everywhere! Half the trans women I currently follow were initially presenting online as cis-het white men. Including ContraPoints, who I started following before she even showed her face on videos.It doesn't seem to me like there is a dearth of cis male role models, it seems like there is a dearth of masculinity role models. Because all of the men I am thinking of not only seek to speak to a universal audience, but kind of strip themselves of any "struggles with masculinity" that so many young men today seem to face. Like, it is still difficult to publicly be insecure about your masculinity while being a man, as far as I can tell. Despite that being a seemingly universal experience.So Iunno, maybe it's that. Vulnerability and its conspicuous absence. The construction of masculinity as being tied to invulnerability and lack of need for learning, hand-holding, progress, iteration. Being "supposed to already know" things. Maybe that is the big gap?But I can give you a list of 50 cis het men off the top of my head who are admirable in some way and I wouldn't even have to google. The people are there, are famous, and are widely recognized for their achievements.
- No location available
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A lot of us are a bit too busy fighting our own liberation too think too hard or too effectively on the liberation of white men from the same systems that privileged them the most. And it feels fu****g stupid. And in many cases like a complete waste of time to engage with white men and boys in conversations that analyses and breaks down elements of their lived experiences and identities the same way we often do our own, because they don't really have that muscle a lot of the time. It's hard for them to even start them down that path initially because it basically requires them to completely reframe their understanding of the world and the self to even state to make sense of it.But it is to a point where we've greatly fallen behind where even though we do have a ton of cis-het white men in this space on the Left, the actual explicit analysis of whiteness and maleness is lacking. And it's even lacking also in academia.If I were a "normal" 13 year old white boy and I was struggling socially, or I was struggling emotionally, or I was struggling with an ace and an adverse childhood experience and maybe I'm a product of white habitus so even though I don't outwardly hate of take issue with people of other races or queer people or women, i also don't quite have the best filters for recognizing harmful and aggressive beliefs about those groups. Maybe I'm into anime or gaming because those spaces make me feel good and those communities affirm me, and give me a sense of belonging and identity that I don't get in other social spaces.Whatever the case, if I was looking for help and I was looking for something to aid me in a way that made sense form my specific unique intersection among people that I tend to trust, unless there was someone truly there to aid me right on time in a specific journey into a progress and, like, useful emotional framework, I'd probably end up in the Manosphere.
- No location available
-

In Contrapoints video about Men, she talks about something similar: men don't have a lot of positive role models that allow them to reflect on their own condition or drive them away from the Manosphere, and she herself didn't know where to go from there. She didn't have the solutions on how men should liberate themselves because it's not something anyone has thought about seriously.And I think it's because being a man is seen as a hierarchical state in itself. You're at the top of the pyramid, you don't have any problems compared to the rest of the pyramid. Except that's not how it works, as the people at the top of the pyramid are not just men, they're rich and powerful men. And the Manosphere will try to make you believe you're one of them, while hiding the fact that you're just a pawn for those people, and that the average man is just as screwed as anyone else. They'll work for those same powerful men, perpetuate the myths and gender roles that help those men stay in power, and keep the patriarchal machine going. And they'll drive home the point that if you as a man are failing, it's not because you haven't understood where you actually stand, but because other people are trying to drive you down.The rigidity of men's gender roles is enforced to keep this system going, and since the models that presented to us are ''successful men'', a lot of younger men fail to see beyond it. And society doesn't want to show them anything else. It's extremely hard as a cis het guy to find anything worth working towards if you're trying to follow someone else's example. And I feel like compared to women and queer folk, there's an extreme lack of positive representation that would allow younger men to question themselves and ask what makes those positive models work, and how they can work to be like them.
- No location available
-

In Contrapoints video about Men, she talks about something similar: men don't have a lot of positive role models that allow them to reflect on their own condition or drive them away from the Manosphere, and she herself didn't know where to go from there. She didn't have the solutions on how men should liberate themselves because it's not something anyone has thought about seriously.I always find this kind of confusing.Like, the vast majority of my role models are cis white men. Freaking Karl Marx has a take on how men should liberate themselves.More and more it feels like men have plenty of role models, the problem is the universalization of the "cis white guy" as a role model. The ease with which it can be dismissed as "not for them" because it's "for everyone" or something.I mean, I am having a genuinely hard time thinking of anyone I have admired in the past decade and a half who is not a cis man who I just like... Randomly came upon as a cool person.I always had to seek people out from other demographics, while cis guys rained down upon me. I like science communication? There's a cis guy for that. I like writing? There's ten podcasts full of cis men ready to provide. I get briefly into chess? Cis men! Cis men everywhere! Half the trans women I currently follow were initially presenting online as cis-het white men. Including ContraPoints, who I started following before she even showed her face on videos.It doesn't seem to me like there is a dearth of cis male role models, it seems like there is a dearth of masculinity role models. Because all of the men I am thinking of not only seek to speak to a universal audience, but kind of strip themselves of any "struggles with masculinity" that so many young men today seem to face. Like, it is still difficult to publicly be insecure about your masculinity while being a man, as far as I can tell. Despite that being a seemingly universal experience.So Iunno, maybe it's that. Vulnerability and its conspicuous absence. The construction of masculinity as being tied to invulnerability and lack of need for learning, hand-holding, progress, iteration. Being "supposed to already know" things. Maybe that is the big gap?But I can give you a list of 50 cis het men off the top of my head who are admirable in some way and I wouldn't even have to google. The people are there, are famous, and are widely recognized for their achievements.
- No location available
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