R/EffectiveAltruism - Comment by U/--McMc-- On ”Are You Vegan?”

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Book cover of "R/EffectiveAltruism - Comment by U/--McMc-- On ”Are You Vegan?”"

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For the last decade+ (and a few years in my earlier teens) I've derived on the order of ≈95-99+% of my kcal from plant-based products, but havekept & worn wool, silk, down, and leather clothing, shoes, backpacking gear, & other accessories,eaten bivalves & honey,imbibed beers and wines presumably filtered with isinglass (& similar non-vegan consumables whose production exploits animals, eg cane sugar processed with bone char),consumed dairy (esp. incidental dairy, eg whey as a thickening or emulsifying agent, though I'll mostly consume eg oatmilk these days — haven’t bought mammalian milk in years), etc.I stilldrive places plenty often for recreational purposes (on non-vegan tires), and while I can’t distinctly recall killing any vertebrates in the process, I suspect plenty have still died by that choice (and certainly many bugs!).(at times and on various physicians' recommendations) consume pharmaceuticals, nutraceuticals, supplements, etc. for which there exist no reliable or affordable plant-based alternatives in the broad hopes of alleviating assorted medical difficulties.eat non-bivalve animal flesh on very rare (every year or two) occasion where it would have otherwise been thrown out and my consumption wouldn't plausibly influence future purchasing decisions, as well as a few times by accident (eg misreading a free sample) -- helpful too as reassurance I'm not missing much, at least from the gustatory perspective.keep the company of two (indoor w/ enclosed catio access) cats (and formerly dog) who consume (predominantly) tuna- and cow- based kibble & treats, and whose dietary "choices" are thus extensions of my own. While I think the arguments against feeding cats carefully managed plant-based diets often betray a thoroughly motivated misunderstanding of ecology, evolution, physiology, and arithmetic, I think it's also the case that reputational risks, monetary costs, and whatever minor reduction in their QoL outweigh the fractional non-human animal life that will be spared by switching them to something plant-based (recent retrospective work like this or this failing to support robust causal inferential claims for reasons similar to those stymying straightforward interpretation of observed associations between human health and dietary behavior).broadly support carefully regulated forms of research on animals within the 3Rs framework: basic, translational, and clinical.
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I think of dietary and other decisions much more in the context of complex tradeoffs like this than anything (though see caveats here wrt those specific estimates). While I do value (even strongly value) improving others’ welfare and reducing their suffering, I don’t value those things to the exclusion of all else, including my own pleasure and convenience. Motivations in this regard weigh heavily consequentialist -- not fundamentally distinguishing between direct and indirect sources of non-human animal suffering or preference-frustration etc. (in the same way that I'd not distinguish between eg contributing to global warming and some amortized, distributed suffering burden shared among those adversely affected, though obviously I'd take it into account when predicting others' behavior wrt to their future interactions w/ me.
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I also think there's a signaling consideration, having inspired many friends, family, & students etc. to adopt a 99.9% reducetarianism that I think would have been a much harder sell for that final 0.1%, veganism also not having the best public image. The ostro- prefix lets me give a little comparative neuroanatomy spiel whenever I’m “caught” eating mussels and asked to explain, where I can sneakily describe my perspective in a less threatening & more matter-of-fact manner than otherwise available. Also some personal, internal signaling reasons -- to not “other” & resent the masses of humanity too deeply, which I think I’d be prone to if I really sacrificed to keep my hands “spotless” at steeply escalating marginal cost (an ultimately futile endeavor, imo, for reasons alluded above). And I’d sooner funnel energies spent grilling friends about incidental ingredients at potlucks (eschewing animal flesh and eggs as a matter of course, but looking out for other trace components) towards donations or volunteering, even if I think the broader offsetting / indulgences arguments to be fundamentally flawed
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- [note::This comment articulates why I've been so hesitant to call myself vegan! I think I might adopt the term ostro-veganism/ostr-vegetarianism, just as a conversation starter.]


dg-publish: true
created: 2024-07-01
modified: 2024-07-01
title: R/EffectiveAltruism - Comment by U/--McMc-- On ”Are You Vegan?”
source: hypothesis

!tags:: #lit✍/📰️article/highlights
!links::
!ref:: R/EffectiveAltruism - Comment by U/--McMc-- On ”Are You Vegan?”
!author:: reddit.com

=this.file.name

Book cover of "R/EffectiveAltruism - Comment by U/--McMc-- On ”Are You Vegan?”"

Reference

Notes

Quote

For the last decade+ (and a few years in my earlier teens) I've derived on the order of ≈95-99+% of my kcal from plant-based products, but havekept & worn wool, silk, down, and leather clothing, shoes, backpacking gear, & other accessories,eaten bivalves & honey,imbibed beers and wines presumably filtered with isinglass (& similar non-vegan consumables whose production exploits animals, eg cane sugar processed with bone char),consumed dairy (esp. incidental dairy, eg whey as a thickening or emulsifying agent, though I'll mostly consume eg oatmilk these days — haven’t bought mammalian milk in years), etc.I stilldrive places plenty often for recreational purposes (on non-vegan tires), and while I can’t distinctly recall killing any vertebrates in the process, I suspect plenty have still died by that choice (and certainly many bugs!).(at times and on various physicians' recommendations) consume pharmaceuticals, nutraceuticals, supplements, etc. for which there exist no reliable or affordable plant-based alternatives in the broad hopes of alleviating assorted medical difficulties.eat non-bivalve animal flesh on very rare (every year or two) occasion where it would have otherwise been thrown out and my consumption wouldn't plausibly influence future purchasing decisions, as well as a few times by accident (eg misreading a free sample) -- helpful too as reassurance I'm not missing much, at least from the gustatory perspective.keep the company of two (indoor w/ enclosed catio access) cats (and formerly dog) who consume (predominantly) tuna- and cow- based kibble & treats, and whose dietary "choices" are thus extensions of my own. While I think the arguments against feeding cats carefully managed plant-based diets often betray a thoroughly motivated misunderstanding of ecology, evolution, physiology, and arithmetic, I think it's also the case that reputational risks, monetary costs, and whatever minor reduction in their QoL outweigh the fractional non-human animal life that will be spared by switching them to something plant-based (recent retrospective work like this or this failing to support robust causal inferential claims for reasons similar to those stymying straightforward interpretation of observed associations between human health and dietary behavior).broadly support carefully regulated forms of research on animals within the 3Rs framework: basic, translational, and clinical.
- No location available
-

Quote

I think of dietary and other decisions much more in the context of complex tradeoffs like this than anything (though see caveats here wrt those specific estimates). While I do value (even strongly value) improving others’ welfare and reducing their suffering, I don’t value those things to the exclusion of all else, including my own pleasure and convenience. Motivations in this regard weigh heavily consequentialist -- not fundamentally distinguishing between direct and indirect sources of non-human animal suffering or preference-frustration etc. (in the same way that I'd not distinguish between eg contributing to global warming and some amortized, distributed suffering burden shared among those adversely affected, though obviously I'd take it into account when predicting others' behavior wrt to their future interactions w/ me.
- No location available
-

Quote

I also think there's a signaling consideration, having inspired many friends, family, & students etc. to adopt a 99.9% reducetarianism that I think would have been a much harder sell for that final 0.1%, veganism also not having the best public image. The ostro- prefix lets me give a little comparative neuroanatomy spiel whenever I’m “caught” eating mussels and asked to explain, where I can sneakily describe my perspective in a less threatening & more matter-of-fact manner than otherwise available. Also some personal, internal signaling reasons -- to not “other” & resent the masses of humanity too deeply, which I think I’d be prone to if I really sacrificed to keep my hands “spotless” at steeply escalating marginal cost (an ultimately futile endeavor, imo, for reasons alluded above). And I’d sooner funnel energies spent grilling friends about incidental ingredients at potlucks (eschewing animal flesh and eggs as a matter of course, but looking out for other trace components) towards donations or volunteering, even if I think the broader offsetting / indulgences arguments to be fundamentally flawed
- No location available
-
- [note::This comment articulates why I've been so hesitant to call myself vegan! I think I might adopt the term ostro-veganism/ostr-vegetarianism, just as a conversation starter.]